Customer Insights & How They Help Build Your Brand With Rachel Swanson

Julie:
Good morning, everyone. I’m Julie Livingston of Want Leverage Communications, a public relations and LinkedIn consultancy. And I’m back for another episode of PR Patter, where I chat with the amazing people from across my public relations and marketing network. Today, I’m delighted to welcome Rachel Swanson.

Rachel is the owner and lead consultant of Method and Mode. She has two decades of experience delivering end-to-end primary research solutions and strategic support to business leaders across industries, both B2B and consumer, qual and quant. From customer satisfaction, personal persona, and segmentation work to product development, concept testing, and conjoint analysis. Going beyond the numbers to create an insights-informed brand narrative is her superpower.

I love that. Since 2018, Method and Mode insights have fueled early stage businesses and renowned global brands alike across beauty and wellness. fashion, consumer product, consumer packaged goods, tech, hospitality, and media. Before she established Method and Mode, Rachel spent a decade at Condé Nast in brand strategy and insights roles at multiple properties across their brand portfolio.

Her foundational expertise in primary methodologies, marketing, science, analytics, and usability testing was developed agency-wide during stints at Digitas and Possible, which is a WPP agency. Rachel, thank you so much for being with me today.

Rachel:
Yeah, happy to be here. Thanks for having me, Julie. Sure.

Rachel’s Background

Julie:
Can you tell us a little bit more about your backstory and elaborate on your background?

Rachel:
Absolutely. What’s maybe rare for being in the research and insight space is that I’m a career market researcher. I discovered my love for understanding that intersection of why people do what they do and stats and psychology in college, and was able to just hit the ground running from there.

I started at a new product development firm actually in college, now defunct, but a small company focused on product development, launching, and testing. Spent a few years there, working on the agency side during the post-dot-com boom era.

So, split testing usability analytics was a new thing. But it was all part of the generalist strategy and research practice.

I did a few years on the agency side, and like many children of the eighties and nineties, the dream of working for a women’s fashion magazine was the call. And eventually, I was able to leverage my background and years in the industry to move into the corporate research side at Condé Nast.

At the time, it was very heavily focused on editorial research, cover testing, and how they were going to move into the digital era.

This is mid-early 2000s. The launch of the iPad and what all that meant for these legacy properties. So I did a lot of work in that space from a product and content perspective. And then, because I had all these connections across the brands, I moved to the brand side.

So spent a couple of years as the marketing director at Glamour magazine and then another few years at W magazine as well. And so the thing that struck me once I moved to the publishing side after being agency side for a while was the way that positioning is so informed by data and by what your customers think.

Whether that’s B2B or B2C is understanding what people need and how you’re going to deliver against that is just what I find so compelling personally and why I love what I do.

Once it was time for me to move on during the media upheaval of, the late 2010s, I decided to go out on my own and bring my experience from being at very large infrastructure corporations.

Knowing how critical insights are in the operations of startups and smaller media brands and the middle market, where there’s not necessarily enough resources or structure in place to have a fully dedicated insights team all the time.

Yet, there’s still an understanding that leadership knows they can’t just get by anymore with analytics and with one survey they did three years ago. So that’s what I do.

Julie:
That’s great. It’s funny that it’s such a small world. I was one of those people who, when I was in college, my goal was to be a fashion editor. And so yeah, I guess so. And I started in that role at YM. No longer around. But I remember later on, I did some freelance work at Brides magazine when it was a Conde Nast property.

Rachel:
It is a small world. The Conde connection is a small world. Yeah, and at that time it was so much fun. Working at a women’s magazine was a lot of fun. It was great.

Why does Customer Insights Matter?

Julie:
There seems to be an abundance of data around. First of all, I’m always getting asked if I’ll participate in surveys and studies. But with so much data around us, why does customer insight matter, and how do you know when the data is really good data?

Rachel:
There, there’s no shortage of data, right? And especially, we can talk about AI more later if we want, or we can avoid it altogether. But really, it’s about context, right? And so you can have so much data, but it’s what you do with it and how you leverage it that matters.

It’s not what you know, but what you notice, it’s the patterns, it’s the implications, and it’s how you put that into practice in your business, right?

And there’s a piece of the puzzle that, I think, is super important that leaders often fail to bring to the table. Which is talking to customers, and whether that’s customer experience and reviews, and service calls.

But diving into the unarticulated needs or the latent problems that your product brand or position is solving is so critical because you’re never going to get the why from analytics, right?

Julie:
I’m sorry. I’m having some camera issues here.

It’s interesting that many years ago, when I was at Liz Claiborne, at the time it was one of the largest garment manufacturers in the world.

We were probably developing a new line of fashion accessories of fashion jewelry, and we worked with one of the world’s leading designers, Ivan Chermayeff, at the time. He’s no longer with us, but Chermayeff and Geismar is a world-renowned logo and corporate identity firm.

And we did not use customer insights. We used anecdotal information, which was valuable to a point, but I remember so clearly how we didn’t invest in doing real, properly executed research.

We came up with a logo and with merchandising that was in a color that was disruptive at the time to department stores, and it did not perform well. So I’ll never forget what if we had invested in any actual customer insights research.

Rachel:
We probably might’ve come out on the other end.

I think if there are three things that insights work for, it’s about connection with your customers and that requires the human element, the human touch, it’s about those unexpected insights, those moments of serendipity, which are so critical with innovation.

And it’s also about observed or nonverbal or more psychographic cues that kind of let you know if you’re on pace or not.

So in, in my business, the way that I translate this is not saying just do a survey. It’s not about doing a survey.

It’s about how we can make a more confident business decision.

And how can we invest smartly? Because no one has research budgets like they had, you know, a decade ago, two decades ago. It’s just not the same.

It has to ladder into ROI, and there has to be a real strategic imperative that what we’re learning is helping a decision or making sure that we’re pivoting and pivoting in the right direction.

What Are Customer Insight Use Cases?

Julie:
Yeah, absolutely. Can you give us some examples of some of the programs that you’ve worked on?

Rachel:
I work a lot in consumer products in terms of product innovation, developing digital products as well, such as loyalty programs or even just new websites or frameworks for social content. But product side, something that stands out recently is that I was working with a wellness tech company to understand a few of their different SKUs (stock keeping units).

And they decided lately to incorporate in-person testing with true prospects, some of the competitive products, and they’d never really done that kind of side-by-side comparison in a systematic way before to see really small nuances in the product design and the hand feel.

That just had not really been thought of before, because when they were always comparing their internal product selection with what was in their portfolio, they were making incremental changes there, to suit different use cases of this product. So that was like a really exciting finding for my client and for me.

But more straightforward from a quantitative perspective is concept testing.

I recently had a client in the consumer entertainment/hospitality space. They have a new concept that has a couple of locations in the market. It’s in the same vein as indoor mini golf or an arcade, but some of these are more interactive, immersive in-person entertainment experiences.

It’s just going to market so talking about the concept, showing the brand video, just getting some numbers behind the different markets that they’re considering launching in and what people loved about, the framework of becoming a customer, what that customer, what that guest experience looked like, just getting some numbers on the table as they expand.

This not only helps with internal stakeholders and investor positioning. But also when you go to market, making sure that you’re using what resonates with customers is about that human element.

And I think we’ve all been in a situation where we know something looks good on paper, or now we could say it looks good digitally, feels like it should, feels like it should hit, but it just, something feels off, and then what feels off is the human piece.

And how important is it to revisit that research on a regular basis? Because customers change their attitudes and the experience can change.

What About Excitement Falloff?

Julie:
When the experience has been out there for a while people are not, people may not be as excited as they were initially. How do you monitor that?

Rachel:
Sure. Look, it’s always amazing to be able to track or trend what you’re seeing so that you can make incremental change. But the reality is that it’s very challenging for a lot of businesses.

What I do is more custom. Because there’s always a lot of nuance, there’s more nuance that you want to see, or maybe you think you’re tracking something versus last year. But you’re wanting to ask like these 20 other questions instead.

My perspective is to do as much as you can when you can and try to avoid the kitchen sink model by planning out a little bit in advance and looking at your year, looking at your priorities, and even if it’s a smaller investment, where is that investment going to move the needle?

How Do You Do It?

Julie:
Great. Everybody wants to leverage their customer insights, their market research, to do something even higher than that, right? To spread the word about a particular brand and elevate it. For example, leveraging that data into thought leadership pieces, speaking engagements, crisis communications, and even a sales lead magnet. How do you do that?

Rachel:
Yeah, so that’s something I love doing as well, right?

So we’ve talked about product development concept testing. I love it all, but you know, we thought leadership.

I think what’s so unique or what’s important in that space is being differentiated, right?

And a really easy way to be differentiated is to bring something proprietary to the table.

And having your data, your hypotheses that you’ve brought to life with solid backing, whether that’s, doing some ethnography with the kind of audience you’re talking about or running a survey to have those visualizations and charts that you just really know are going to make your presentation sing; that’s powerful.

I’ve done this a fair amount with some digital agency clients, where you’d think, why would a digital agency need an insights consultant to come in and run research when they must have their own?

They don’t have their own to market themselves. And that’s going to fall to the back burner unless they pull someone in who cannot be focusing on the client work and billing those hours.

Julie:
And you bring a fresh perspective.

Rachel:
And bring a fresh perspective. Exactly. Doing that just really uplevels it. It makes it more special, and it makes it something you can own, right?

Like, no one needs you to take an eMarketer report and repackage it in your branding. That’s, that can be great, but it’s not going to add value and show what you are, what new you’re bringing to the table, and how you’re differentiated.

From, as you mentioned, like the crisis PR or the comms perspective, setting the narrative, right? We’ve all been in those positions where something, something hits your industry, and there’s a new hot topic, and you’ve got to get out ahead or you’ve got to chime in about the position.

And I’ve done this in the workplace security space, where the concept of frontline workers and how physically safe retail frontline healthcare workers are in the post-COVID and now the post-COVID era, when everyone focuses on data security, right?

What about how people are being treated by COVID-19?

Customers and guests by fellow employees are sometimes management. That’s still a big issue in a lot of spaces.

So I worked with a client there and worked with their PR team to craft the story at the moment where there was a lot of news in the space. And just map their talking points around some fresh data that we gathered on a very broad-scale quantitative survey.

To bring to life some of the issues and their perspective on the issues, and then, how the product and the organization can satisfy those needs.

And then again, like with the thought leadership for lead gen, I’ve worked with some SAS companies, different types of software in the e-commerce space.

And, people are always looking for those quick tips and what’s going on in my industry. Am I still competitive?

It’s like the impostor syndrome creeps up, or you’re at your organization, and you have a roadmap, and you’re like, oh my god, but what is everyone else doing?

That’s a great time to do – especially with b2b, some categories, some competitive analysis, some stakeholder interviews, or one-on-one interviews with folks in the space, and distill what’s happening.

And see if you’re, and put out a paper on how competitive, what’s going on in the market, and how your organization solves those concerns for people who are in the space, reconsidering their approach. And so those are more about the branding.

It’s more about the positioning. It’s not saying this color is what works or these people are going to buy, or this is the pricing structure, but it’s that softer data-driven insights and positioning that helps sell in what you’re offering.

And that’s always really fun to do.

Julie:
So really, I think what you’re saying is to really keep on top of the life cycle of the product or service and continue to. Dip back into customer insights to make sure that you’re continually on target.

Rachel:
Yeah. And it’s your customers and it’s also prospects, right?

It’s understanding the marketplace and your prospective customers, and those who are not your customers, and why they aren’t, you’re not going to get that from your site analytics and from your social.

How Do You Pick The Right Customer Insights Partner?

Julie:
So, how do you pick the right customer insights partner? Because I think for some companies, whether they’re B2B or B2C, this is a big deal for them. You gotta find the right
partner. You want to work with somebody you can trust. What are some of the things you should look for?

Rachel:
Sure. I think number one is. Someone who’s really going to hear your problems.

I’ve found that the best researchers are quite good listeners.

There’s a maxim on the qual side that says, “the best moderators never speak because you want to be hearing what people are saying. And you want to be able to deduce what people are saying, even when they’re not saying it.”

So I think I would flip that into red flags; for me, these are multiple form submissions, multiple hoops to jump through to get to the under, to get to a call with someone who can answer questions about your project and how it’ll work.

I think, look, there are times when working with a big firm or a midsize firm that has expertise in a certain research product is beneficial and cost-effective. I find sometimes clients get frustrated, though, when they want to pivot and add a few different things to it to customize it. And then they’re going to be nickel and dimed for adding or changing the process.

So I think that’s something to look for or be honest with yourself about if you know that you just need a very tight concept test.

You don’t want custom questions. You want to work with a team that’s going to crank it out. Do you need it in four days? Like great large platforms that just give you the report and point to the result.

But if you’re interested in some more nuanced questions and a deeper understanding and flexibility with your data and the instrument, you’re going to want to work with someone more nimble and customized.

Again, it’s more about being honest with your organization and what your capabilities are.

Do you have someone who can look at the data and synthesize it, or not? Do you want to work with someone senior and hands-on? Or do you want to have that trade-off with someone more junior, who might not understand the scope of your business, or how that data is getting used by you as the end client?

And so that’s something that I, you know, like to think that I bring to the table as well, is when you’re working with more senior partners.

And they’re the ones doing the work and closely overseeing the work. They’re going to have a better understanding of your business and your business position in the world versus if it’s being passed off to someone who’s siloed into a specific piece of that puzzle, right?

Just really being honest with yourself, what your organization can support resource-wise. What your organization can support budget-wise, and really what your questions are that you want to answer.

And if they are straightforward, yes, no couple of data points, or if you’re looking for more nuance. Who can deliver that to you, and who do you feel has that value?

There are also a lot of subject matter expertise partners that focus on specific areas. Especially if you’re looking at B2B versus consumer, I think. Again, that matters more at the enterprise level, right?

I think most career researchers and people who’ve been in the industry for 10 or more years have worked for a variety of clients across sectors and have reached different audiences.

And the fundamental skills of research are transferable. What makes work exciting for people who’ve been in the business a long time is learning new businesses and new categories as they go. And applying those skills in that space. It’s obviously about what you need. If you need benchmarks in your space.

Go with someone who productizes and specializes in your sector. But if you’re just looking to understand your customers or thinking outside the box, generally a smaller, more custom shop it’s going to be a better fit for you.

How Do You Start A Customer Insights Project?

Julie:
So you’ve made the decision to go forward with it, with an agency. How do you begin a successful customer insights project? Are there steps that you should take? Or that you should look for to know that, oh yeah, this is, these are the right ways to go.

Rachel:
I have a variety of versions of this, but I call it the three questions I always ask. Whenever I’m talking to a new potential partner or starting a new project, even with an existing partner.

1.
What are the objectives?

Because I can tell you that if you cannot articulate what it is you want to learn, it is going to be a much more challenging process for us to figure out the right approa

ch. Make sure the instrument that we use is the right one, so you feel the project will be successful. So, pushing on your hypotheses, articulating what it is. You want to define what a successful research insights project looks like.

You know, pushing it to the furthest you can at the beginning is going to pay off immensely. Garbage in, garbage out. If you don’t know what you want to do, take that time to lay it out. And if you don’t know how to articulate, that’s fine.

That’s what people like me help you do.

You have to be able to articulate what the need is for doing the research.

Now, then, can your partner help? Can they help you articulate what you think you need?

Yeah, I think you want to understand the outcome, right? What are they trying to solve? What is the problem?

The understanding of what that pain point is, or the objective of doing research, and doing research now.

The flip side is that sometimes there could be a leadership mandate that says we’ve got to do some research. But that’s not a helpful way to start a project.

So it’s so it doesn’t have to be a robust thesis, written out on five pages. However, there has to be some priorities, some hierarchy of what the needs are or what the key questions are that we’re trying to solve.

2.
The second thing is to identify your audience, not who you want to talk to.

I can help you figure out that we’re talking to the right person, but who cares about what you’re trying to solve?

So once you’ve laid out those questions you need answered, who cares about those answers?

Truly, is it this group of management? Is it your product development team? Or is it communications and PR? Is it the marketing team? Who really cares about those results?

Bringing them into the tent early on goes very far. That might not be the kickoff with me or someone like me.

But during the survey development process, especially during the review of a discussion guide. Like having them sit in on a focus group, in the back room, or if it’s on Zoom. Additionally, having them chime in, building consensus with the people who care is going to make the research better.

3.
And then the third thing is, how do they receive feedback?

So even when you’re thinking about the project scope, and this is something that I’ve been exploring a lot over the past few years with clien

ts. I don’t always do a big presentation deck at the end of my work with folks. Because no one wants to read it.

No one wants a fifty-page deck unless you’re in the type of organization where the optics of having that artifact of a fifty-page deck matter. Which certain industries, of course, they always will.

Other organizations, I’ve had a 90-minute work session and ten bullet points, and we’ve talked about it, and we’ve played with the data together, and they’re ready to go.

I’ve had clients where they’ve made decisions on the phone call. Then they went into a new meeting to change the direction of the marketing copy. And just to go test it, like, “let’s throw this in and test this now.”

What I’ve found over the years is that being honest with yourself about what your organization can do and what your organization needs is the best way to start a project.

It also goes into the platforms you choose, right?

So even if you have in-house insights, and you have an analyst or a small team of researchers. I’m sure they are always looking at the different tools for field surveys or the different platforms for social listening. You have to be trained on a platform; having the platform doesn’t mean the insights are better.

And if you don’t know how to use the platform, it doesn’t make them less expensive either. Then you’re paying for the ability. But you’re not leveraging it to the fullest. So setting objectives, knowing who cares about your results, and making sure that people who care about the results are receiving them in the right way, whether that’s top lines, phone calls.

Doing a video attached to an email, a one-sheet, or a huge, robust research deck. That’s really where I focus.

And again, where there’s a lever where you can right-size partnerships. Based on what you need. You’re not paying for a paperweight to be at your desk at the end of a six-week research project. Or I should say the PDF.

I should say the PDF that never gets opened, that’s in your inbox. You stress about, oh, I’ve got to figure out what this says. No one wants to figure out what the report says. And again, that’s what makes sure that you’re working with a partner who hears you. They hear what you need, and hear what your organization’s capable of actually leveraging is so important.

Thank You, Rachel!

Rachel:
This has been such a comprehensive discussion. I really, I’m so glad you came on. How can people get in touch? Sure. Is it on LinkedIn or your website? Sure. What are you? I’m on LinkedIn. It’s Rachel Swanson. Method + Mode dot co is my website. I have a bunch of case studies there. You can see my work. I’m always happy to have an introductory, direct introductory call and talk about your business. And happy to help.

Julie:
Wonderful. Everyone else, if you like what you saw today. I hope you’ll go to my website at wantleverage.com. And download our free tip sheet, How To Make Your C Suite Stand Out On LinkedIn. We’re experts in raising executive visibility on the LinkedIn platform. But also in extending your thought leadership to other platforms as well. All to get you noticed and to make you shine against your competitors. Rachel, great to have you again, and everyone else. I’ll see you next time on PR Patter.